Hi Everyone!
Many thanks to Thomas, @wollethom for bringing up the topic of using Starlink, and to our newest member Luca, @lucaborgianni, for replying to Thomas’ post in this Forum.
The topic that Thomas started was more generally regarding Starlink connections, so I have initiated this Topic here for anyone to share their experience using Starlink specifically for JackTrips.
Thank you all.
When starting the Starlink topic I did not suspect too much that my JackTrip experience was dangerously suspended on a tiny little glass fiber thread that could break or be disconnected at any moment without any assurance that it might get fixed within a reasonable delay. But truth be told, I am without fiber for 7 weeks now.
Time for getting hands on experience with Starlink!
Installing Starlink is super easy and the day you get the kit from a shop you can have internet!
Does it work with JackTrip?
This is my experience until now.
With fiber from my place near Montpellier (France) my best studio location used to be Torino (Italy) with about 12ms latency.
Madrid (Spain) used to be around 30ms.
With Starlink the latency with Madrid is about the same but less stable. All other locations have higher latencies than Madrid with Starlink. I am still looking for an explanation. Paris should have a shorter latency than Madrid but it doesn’t.
I have recorded myself with a backing track uploaded to the server in Madrid. Playing feels almost ok but in the video the organ lags behind. No question, I definitely prefer fiber but as long as I do not get my fiber connection repaired Starlink is at least a possibility. Check out the video TWs studio Madrid - Recording 2024-09-16 | JackTrip Labs
I wanted to know whether with a priority subscription there are shorter latencies than with the standard one. I actually do not observe much of a difference. With the priority plan my minimal latency is 23 ms, median 30, max 73.
I wonder whether there is a way to get the message to Starlink that we would like them to improve latency and stability to make it more suitable for remote music making.
Sorry to hear about your fiber connection! Do you think the CME’s had anything to do with it? There was a 20% increase in solar flare activity over the weekend.
Anyway, as always you ride in with pioneering innovation and determination, and I am so grateful for your generous sharing.
The recording you posted is a great example of how latency issues can make an excellent musician like yourself sound like they have no rhythm!
When you speak of subscriptions, I think you are referring to Starlink’s Standard and Priority plans?
The JackTrip pricing plans were recently revamped and include Free, Lite, Essential, and Advanced on the following link: Pricing | JackTrip Labs
Perhaps @miked or @lucaborgianni will have a direct link to the Starlink development team, or other comments for you.
Thank you, Thomas, and please keep us posted on your adventures in space and beyond!
Starlink has been trying to get approval for deployment of a new generation of VLEO (very low earth orbit) satellites, but so far it has been blocked. Although there is room for improvement, satellite could never be as good as fiber.
Synthia, no, I do not think it has to do with the CMEs. It is more likely a human error and the failure to fix it has something to do with poor management of technical staff. The company involved seems to loose a lot of clients but is not dead, yet, as they own the infrastructure.
The subscriptions I refer to are indeed those to Starlink.
As I learn more about this technology I get the impression that there is a huge potential to make this work for JackTrip. That could be quite a gamechanger, as it is probably unrealistic to assume that everybody will have fiber in a foreseeable future. This seems particularly true for musicians.
It seems that most latency is generated on the ground and we need the most direct connection possible to the JackTrip server locations, minimizing any intermediary “hops”.
I hope that satellite will at least become much better than it is now, as fiber will not be an option for many musicians for years to come.
Dear wollethom
Your tests are very interesting!
As far as I know, the priority plan of Starlink differs mainly from the priority of access in the case of many users, but the performances are more or less the same.
I was thinking of writing a report to them, and maybe we can collaborate on that.
–Luca Borgianni
right now I use, or at least try to use, both, Starlink and optical fiber internet access for JackTrip. For most of the studio locations available in JackTrip in Europe the latencies currently achieved with Starlink are too long for convincing real-time experience. There is one exception: from my location in the South of France it is possible to play in JackTrip Studios in Madrid with similar latencies with fiber and via satellite, typically around 30ms, at times less. That is not ideal but better than nothing.
As already announced, I wanted to find out whether, at least under favorable conditions, a Starlink internet access could be used for jamming in a JackTrip studio.
My location is in the south of France and one might expect that one gets the best results with the only server location in France, which is in Paris, 710 km from my place. But that is not the case. The studio location with the shortest latency using Starlink is in Madrid, Spain, 970 km from my place. Although less stable, the latency with Madrid is nearly the same as with optical fiber internet access.
Here is my experiment:
MacBook pro (left picture) connected via optical fiber and
Windows PC (right picture) connected via Starlink.
A backing with Band-in-a-box was sent live via the Mac and the accordion via the PC.
Headphones were connected to the Mac and I could here me playing the accordion also acoustically.
Disregarding mistakes and other imperfections, my conclusion is that jamming in JackTrip with Starlink is doable and even enjoyable. It only can get better. TWs studio Madrid - Recording 2024-09-25 | JackTrip Labs
But truth be told, the only people I can jam with are those within reach of my studios in Madrid. With all other server locations latencies are far too high.