Seems we are getting some inquiries on here that really should be help tickets on help.jacktrip.org. Systemic mysteries like hanging on login, unable to download…you know stuff that our fab tech team deals with.
Most people are not as detailed and savvy about this platform as the tech team, so maybe this will help people get to the place where they can find help.
Another category could be something like, “Here’s what I have, what else do I need?”
This would be for folks who have some experience and not sure about what they need to do something specific with JackTrip.
Do we need a troubleshooting cateallegory? I’m very excited about JackTrip’s new developments and have just posted in “Share Your Setup” a few troubleshooting tips I think will be extremely helpful.
ah, thanks for identifying that we have some tech help convos happening here. I would definitely appreciate a troubleshooting category.
I’m starting to think that having the convo more out in the open could help other people find the info more easily. Especially now that JackTrip has a lot of little things that should make the experience easier, I’m more confident than before that the troubleshooting will be helpful and not just really confusing for newbies
We do a lot of troubleshooting out in the field but perhaps having more things captured on this forum would make info a bit more searchable. Maybe just one troubleshooting/tips category and we can extend from there based on the types of conversations happening.
Hi, Synthia. I am located in Kentucky and find that I am conveniently
located to have bad latency times with all servers currently out there. I had heard that there would be new servers in 2023 in Nashville and Cincinnati , but this hasn’t happened (yet)!
my question is … what does it entail to put up a server in the hometown to be able to serve local musicians who would like to use Jacktrip and avoid the commute across town or 30-40 miles to rehearse? Is it possible to do so with a Mac? Expensive? Complex? Usable?
Richard
Thanks for your inquiry. Have you tried already tried the Columbus, OH
location?
Hosting your own JackTrip server is certainly doable. There are lots of
different cloud server providers that might have suitable resources
closer to your desired location, or someone could host from their own
machine. Whether it is a remote or local machine, it would need to be
loaded with the JackTrip program, which is a somewhat challenging first
step.
Before taking that first step, there are a number of important
considerations to self-hosting including having adequate computer and
internet resources to be able to send and receive each connection to
every other connection. Then, either with a script or manually, as each
connection arrives, it would need to send and receive to every other
existing connection. Also, any effects, or what JackTrip calls
“Soundscapes” would need to be installed and configured. It is a lot of
work!
The services that JackTrip Virtual Studio provides does everything so
that the focus is mainly on the music. That said, I applaud those who
take on the inherent challenges involved in self-hosting a JackTrip server!
Anyone reading this with additional thoughts is welcome to chime in.
Thanks for the reply! Well, it does sound like the idea of a server is a daunting one… and is not the right solution here. The problem I have found is that in many cases, some of the nearer servers (like Dublin OH) have more latency and stability problems for me. I have gigabit fiber in Lexington KY, and somehow it turns out that the latency is best for NYC or Philadelphia PA than OH, or VA or SC. Depends on the route of the backbone, I imagine. Any word on when a server in Cincinnati or Nashville will happen?
One thing that might help is setting the Buffer Strategy to “Minimal Latency”. The Buffer Strategy setting is on the Advanced tab. Screenshot below.
The default setting for Buffer Strategy is “Loss Concealment”. That means that there will be more latency in order to allow more time to send audio data and cut down on dropouts.
JackTrip is always a tradeoff between latency and noise. The lowest latency could cause dropouts and other noises, and less noise requires more time to transmit more audio data.
In order to improve or troubleshoot one must take time to check out the settings in the audio and advanced screens and experiment. The keys are to take time and experiment.
That said, you have a good point about the peering relationships and handshakes between different Internet Providers along the network route between the locations connected to a JackTrip server. Perhaps those ISP relationships are better where you are getting lower latency.
As far as new locations, I will ping @miked here for information on additional locations and comments if any.
Loss Concealment does not introduce additional latency. It likely introduces less latency than when using “Minimal Latency.” Yes, these are labeled misleadingly, but that is why they are tucked under “Advanced” settings. Provided that you have a decent computer plugged into power, Loss Concealment produces far cleaner audio without any additional latency. That is why we made it the default several releases ago.
Keep in mind too that your audio interface has an enormous impact on everything. Trying to use the $2 chips that shipped with your laptop is almost certainly going to produce poor results. Investing into a name brand external audio interface, while not technically required, tends to produce much better results.
Audio interfaces also introduce their own latency, which can sometimes be worse than your network latency. As the saying goes, you tend to get what you pay for. But you can buy lots of great USB interfaces for under $100. On the higher end, I recommend UA’s Apollo line for the best latency and quality. Kind in mind that using ASIO drivers are required for decent latency on Windows computers.
And just a reminder about wifi. Any wireless radios in the path (including wifi, 5g, network extenders, etc.) introduce tons of latency and jitter, both of which creates big delays and bad sound.
Running a JackTrip (or any type of) server requires IT experience. If you have that, you may want to check out this container that I recently published. IT pros can use it to host your own (audio-only at the moment) JackTrip server with just a command line. Over time, I hope to add more features to it, but as a startup our plans are changing all the time.
Interesting to know about loss concealment and latency… but my system still uses the “minimal latency” strategy as default , even though I have latest rev. I haven’t messed with any of the other levers… so I think I am getting the best response. I have the virtual studio box as well as the s/w on a powerful Mac so there should be no issues there. I’m a pretty technical guy… so I have to think that if I’m having trouble tuning jacktrip in… then so are the vast majority of users out there… and that would put the product in trouble in the marketplace…
the interesting point is that I am getting by far the best performance on servers that would be on the backbone between Lexington KY and NYC. I assume that this is naturally because of the digital highway for the investment community. thus, Phil PA is a couple of ms better in performance for me… but Dublin is 15ms more at least. How about servers in the future in Nashville and Cincinnati ? I think Nashville would represent a huge potential market for the technology!
@europerry I recommend switching to Loss Concealment (both on your studio and inside the Desktop App) to see if that works better for you. It’s been the default setting for the past several releases, but we didn’t force people who installed JackTrip earlier to switch over to that.
You are right that distance “as the bird flies” isn’t always the best measure for latency. It has more to do with the ISP each person is using, and how they peer with other providers at various points on the Internet. Your route to Dublin may very well take a detour through Philadelphia, for example.
Needless to say we would like to have as many locations available as possible, and if we were able to choose, Nashville would be at the top of the list. Unfortunately, our ability to expand footprint is constrained by what our partners have available.
This is very interesting Mike because in all of my live sessions and testing, the Loss Concealment setting consistently has more latency and less audio fidelity than Minimal Latency. Richard, if you decide to experiment with these settings, please keep us posted on your findings. Thank you for your contributions.
@europerry JackTrip works over Starlink, and I know of a few groups in rural Canada who are using it. As with 5g the marketing hype with latency doesn’t match up with reality. Fiber Internet is much faster, and the backbone cables we already have that connect continents are generally going to be faster.
